Gandi.net Groups

As I understand gandi is subject to French laws and jurisdiction. And as
I recall France shares some of those ridiculous laws that Germany and
Austria have, which violate free speech in the most indignating way.
Obviously this is something unheard of here in north-america. So my
question is - if gandi receives a letter/email form, say, german/french
nongovernmental organization that would demand closure/suspension of a
domain registered with gandi, by a person who lives in, say, the US and
not a subject to European laws, as well as has his website physically
located on an American/Russian server (or any non-European country with
strong free speech laws). What would gandi do in this situation?
Moreover, if those organizations get a court order (lets imagine this
too) - how much time would I have to transfer away?

thanks

On Jul, 2 2007 21:53 CEST, dave wrote:

As I understand gandi is subject to French laws and jurisdiction. 

This is absoutely correct. And not to forget that our activity is also
governed by the rules and regulations of domain name registration by
the Trustee Authorities (ex. ICANN) and the Registries (Verisign, PIR,
etc.). 

There are therefore several levels that apply to our activity, and thus
our customers, who in the end, choose to accept when registering a
domain name with us, or use our services. 

Obviously this is something unheard of here in north-america. 

....two words: "malfunctioning costume" ;)

if gandi receives a letter/email form, say,
german/french
nongovernmental organization that would demand closure/suspension of a
domain registered with gandi, by a person who lives in, say, the US
and
not a subject to European laws, as well as has his website physically
located on an American/Russian server (or any non-European country
with
strong free speech laws). What would gandi do in this situation?

We would start by reading the letter, and examine the situation. We
always act accordingly and within the bounds of French law, our ICANN
accreditation, our contract with the registry, and the terms and
conditions of our contract as accepted by you - our customer. Each case
is, obviously, unique. A cookie-cutter reply to this question would be a
bad thing, so you will not get one here...sorry! :)

Moreover, if those organizations get a court order (lets imagine this
too) - how much time would I have to transfer away?

One of the reasons we are the preferred registrar for anti-spam
organizations is that (well, in addition to our clear anti-spam
stance...) is that we act responsibly when faced with such requests.

I brought this subject up in out blog at the following page, which you
might find interesting, and which includes a link to a CNET article
that declares Gandi as one of two registrars that"...offer(s) the most
extensive guarantees against unnecessary domain name suspension.":
http://www.gandibar.net/post/2007/02/05/CN...

So, as I said in our blog entry on our fight against spam (
http://www.gandibar.net/post/2007/01/11/Ga...
), "We're not trigger happy...each case is very carefully examined and
well documented before any action is taken, so unless you are a
spammer, fear not!".

Best regards,

Ryan
http://www.gandi.net/

No it's not about spam, viruses or anything like that. It's a policall
issue and it looks like regardless the fact that I really like the way
gandi handles the business - Loi Gayssot's act of 1990 makes it of no
use to me as it violates the fundamental right to free speech and
unfortunately gandi is a subject to this so-called "law". Thus, I am
afraid,  if I sign up with gandi it would make the domain vulnerable to
various legal attacks. At the same time I see several websites of a
similar content that have been registered with gandi for many years and
they by far more popular than my resource... so here is a very thin
legal border, since the website is not located in france, neither is
the owner, so gandi can not be held responsible for the content of
sites hosted elsewhere. But since I know how paranoid the Europian law
is, I'm still in doubts. 

Hopefully you can express your view of the situation, as we are not
talking about any type of cyber crime but freedom of speech. At least
that what we call it in the US and Canada.

On Jul, 2 2007 22:32 CEST, Ryan (Gandi) wrote:

On Jul, 2 2007 21:53 CEST, dave wrote:

As I understand gandi is subject to French laws and jurisdiction. 

This is absoutely correct. And not to forget that our activity is also
governed by the rules and regulations of domain name registration by
the Trustee Authorities (ex. ICANN) and the Registries (Verisign, PIR,
etc.). 

There are therefore several levels that apply to our activity, and
thus
our customers, who in the end, choose to accept when registering a
domain name with us, or use our services. 

Obviously this is something unheard of here in north-america. 

....two words: "malfunctioning costume" ;)

if gandi receives a letter/email form, say,
german/french
nongovernmental organization that would demand closure/suspension of
a
domain registered with gandi, by a person who lives in, say, the US
and
not a subject to European laws, as well as has his website physically
located on an American/Russian server (or any non-European country
with
strong free speech laws). What would gandi do in this situation?

We would start by reading the letter, and examine the situation. We
always act accordingly and within the bounds of French law, our ICANN
accreditation, our contract with the registry, and the terms and
conditions of our contract as accepted by you - our customer. Each
case
is, obviously, unique. A cookie-cutter reply to this question would be
a
bad thing, so you will not get one here...sorry! :)

Moreover, if those organizations get a court order (lets imagine this
too) - how much time would I have to transfer away?

One of the reasons we are the preferred registrar for anti-spam
organizations is that (well, in addition to our clear anti-spam
stance...) is that we act responsibly when faced with such requests.

I brought this subject up in out blog at the following page, which you
might find interesting, and which includes a link to a CNET article
that declares Gandi as one of two registrars that"...offer(s) the most
extensive guarantees against unnecessary domain name suspension.":


http://www.gandibar.net/post/2007/02/05/CN...

So, as I said in our blog entry on our fight against spam (


http://www.gandibar.net/post/2007/01/11/Ga...
), "We're not trigger happy...each case is very carefully examined and
well documented before any action is taken, so unless you are a
spammer, fear not!".

Best regards,

What ?
The USA is not the country of the freedom ?

:D

Jonathan.

Probably the only one left, even though I dislike it a lot  ;-) I like
gandi's features and interface, but I guess I need stay with an
American registrar. If that is gandi's official answer to my question
above, or course.

On Jul, 5 2007 00:22 CEST, Jonathan wrote:

What ?
The USA is not the country of the freedom ?

:D

On Jul, 5 2007 08:39 CEST, dave wrote:

Probably the only one left, even though I dislike it a lot  ;-) I like
gandi's features and interface, but I guess I need stay with an
American registrar. If that is gandi's official answer to my question
above, or course.

Dave, if you are asking beforehand what we would do with your domain
name, there can be no direct and simple answer, because everything
depends on the situation.

Gandi abides by the laws of France and our contracts with the various
registries and trustee authorities. 

As long as you adhere to the terms and conditions agreed to when you
accept our sales contract at the time of registration,  you are free to
do what you wish with your domain name within the bounds of the contract
(and by extension all applicable local laws).

With regards to any action that may be requested against your domain
name by a third party, governmental or otherwise, we must act and only
act in accordance with our obligations as an ICANN-accredited domain
name registrar in France, and within the bounds of our contractual
agreement with you.


Best regards,

Ryan
http://www.gandi.net/