Gandi.net Groups

Well, based on the comments I could find about Gandi on this and other
forums I decided to give them a try and boy, am I sad that I tried
them.

They claim they offer superior service, and that for that reason they
have higher prices. Service is written all over their web site.

Note, they do not have such a thing.

1. when you transfer a domain name to them, you can't define DNS entries
before the domain move is complete. This means that your domain name is
unavailable for some time between the transfer, the account at Gandi
allowing you to input the DNS and the availability of Gandi's DNS for
your domain to the world.
2. to enable a reseller account you have to have first at least one
domain at their place. I manage domain names for several companies.
None of them want anything to do with having to manage an account or
anything, but at Gandi, they do. You can not have a different contact
or owner at Gandi unless that contact has a Gandi handle. A Gandi
handle is nothing else then an account. At Gandi, you have to have an
account for each and every client. You can not define a different owner
of a domain from your reseller account, you have to create an individual
account for each owner. Imagine how much time you'll need to log in and
log out of different accounts to get anything changed!
3. their interface for contacts is unintelligible. You need a Gandi
handle for every different contact. A gandi handle is the same as a
gandi account, with its username and password. You have to squad
through several forms that don't really tell you what it does or
doesn't. I ended up having the wrong owner details on a domain by
following their forms, which according to their terms would mean the
account being deactivated!!
4. when you submit a ticket, it takes them at least a day to reply. I
now have an issue open for 2 days and I'm still waiting!
5. Since I can't put the correct details in their forms to have the
right contacts, I sent them a support request with clearly the correct
contact details, asking them to put the correct details in the account.
Guess what, the reply came back saying it is my responsibility to have
the right details!!!

From my experience, stay away from these people. They charge you a
premium for service which is non existent. When you ask for support you
don't get a reply in a timely manner. And when you ask for support they
tell you to do it yourself.

As for me, back to square one, which registrar to use ...

Dear roamreview,

I take great attention to your message, as we usually have positive
comments about our services, especially about the support service.

I'll try to answer here each question about the service level, as you
wanted to discuss this on this forum. On another hand, I will
immediately answer your question that is still awaiting for an answer
on our email support (posted 1 day and 2 hours ago).

1. when you transfer a domain name to them, you can't define DNS
entries
before the domain move is complete. This means that your domain name
is
unavailable for some time between the transfer, the account at Gandi
allowing you to input the DNS and the availability of Gandi's DNS for
your domain to the world.

A domain name transfer does not change the NS list, this is a rule set
forth by most of the registries, to avoid any technical problem during
a transfer. This rule is the same for all the accredited registrars, in
most of TLDs, this is *technically forbidden for registrars to change
the DNS* during a transfer process.

Consequently, if your servers were working fine before the transfer,
they are still working fine during, and after the transfer.

However, several customers have requested to use Gandi's NS before a
transfer process (including zone management). This is good idea, and we
will implement this option in the future.

2. to enable a reseller account you have to have first at least one
domain at their place. 

What makes you think that? *You can create a Gandi handle for free*,
without obligation to purchase anything. This is also thrue for a
reseller account, which is a Gandi handle.

This has always been possible on our interface, please feel free to try:
https://www.gandi.net/login/new

I manage domain names for several companies.
None of them want anything to do with having to manage an account or
anything, but at Gandi, they do. 

Our reseller system is precisely designed to *permit resellers to manage
their customers' domain names for their customers*. So that the
registrant does not have to manage anything if he does not want to, but
he still has the ownership of his domain names.

You can not have a different contact
or owner at Gandi unless that contact has a Gandi handle. A Gandi
handle is nothing else then an account. At Gandi, you have to have an
account for each and every client. You can not define a different
owner
of a domain from your reseller account, you have to create an
individual
account for each owner. Imagine how much time you'll need to log in
and
log out of different accounts to get anything changed!

Collecting the registrants and *contacts data is an obligation for all
registrars*. It is used mainly for the whois database, that is an ICANN
and registries contractual requirement. At the registries level, each
person's data is associated to a handle. Thus we have to create handles
dor each customer, for the whois requirements, even if these handles are
not all used to manage domain names.

The fact that we create a Gandi handle with your customers' contact data
should not be a problem, you/*they do not have to use them if you manage
the domain names through your reseller account*.

3. their interface for contacts is unintelligible. You need a Gandi
handle for every different contact. A gandi handle is the same as a
gandi account, with its username and password. You have to squad
through several forms that don't really tell you what it does or
doesn't. I ended up having the wrong owner details on a domain by
following their forms, which according to their terms would mean the
account being deactivated!!

As per ICANN requirements, the registries requirements, and French laws,
*we have to collect the contact data of each of our customers*.

If you want to register a domain name for someone else, you have to tell
us the exact contact data of the registrant. 

This data is particularly useful to manage legal cases: the registrant
has rights on the domain name, as owner of the domain, *we have to know
who he is so that we can protect the ownership of his domain name*.

4. when you submit a ticket, it takes them at least a day to reply. I
now have an issue open for 2 days and I'm still waiting!

According to my data, we have received 4 emails from you.
2 of them were answered in 2 hours.
One was answered after 1 day.
We have received the last one 1 day and 2 hours ago, and we will answer
it in a fews minutes.


I hope that this answer helps to understand how domain names work, and
how our interface works.

I am at your disposal should you need any further information.

Best regards,

Françoise
GANDI SAS
http://www.gandi.net/

I'm impressed that you can answer this post so quickly and in such
detail, yet fail to do such in the same way when submitting a support
request. Food for thought ...

1. I fail to understand why this comprehensive answer could not have
been give on the first support query now days ago. So in effect I've
had to wait days and submit publicly to get the right answer. The first
satisfying answer in over a week. Thank you for finally doing so.

2. Thank you for making my point even clearer. For each and every
contact you need a separate login and password. So every time you need
to change a contact detail of a contact, you need to login and password
differently for every owner detail change, per owner that is.

3. The fact that the contact data needs to be correct is undisputed
here, but the fact that it can't be done without different
login/passwords (gandi handles) is the problem. The answer is also
besides the point. Why do your forms need to be unintelligible? 1 form,
all contact details of all contact types in 1 form. I guess, why make it
easy when you can do it difficult?

4. More then 4 support requests, only 1 answered under 2 hours and 2
over 1 day, all with very unsatisfactory answers, except then for point
1 in this message, but that answer took a week to reach me.

I fail to see how your answer explains how your interface works, where
to do what to achieve easy contact management. All I see is a bumpy
road filled with stop and can't do that signs. Besides, the contact
data that I sent you by email is still not put in, so don't blame me
when you discover on my domain name there are contact data errors. You
received them.

From all the domain registrars that I've used on the different domain
names I manage since 1998, so far this is the least user friendly
experience. So far it is a pity that I dared to give you a try on 1
domain.

What makes you think that?

This is what your customer support answered. You may check the answer I
received on one of the support requests. By the way, there are more
then 4 requests and replies. There is only 1 that got answered under 2
hours. and one of them has taken you over 2 days to conclude. Perhaps
that's the one you forget?

On Jan, 12 2008 13:13 CET, Françoise Gandinette wrote:

Dear roamreview,

I take great attention to your message, as we usually have positive
comments about our services, especially about the support service.

I'll try to answer here each question about the service level, as you
wanted to discuss this on this forum. On another hand, I will
immediately answer your question that is still awaiting for an answer
on our email support (posted 1 day and 2 hours ago).

1. when you transfer a domain name to them, you can't define DNS
entries
before the domain move is complete. This means that your domain name
is
unavailable for some time between the transfer, the account at Gandi
allowing you to input the DNS and the availability of Gandi's DNS for
your domain to the world.

A domain name transfer does not change the NS list, this is a rule set
forth by most of the registries, to avoid any technical problem during
a transfer. This rule is the same for all the accredited registrars,
in
most of TLDs, this is *technically forbidden for registrars to change
the DNS* during a transfer process.

Consequently, if your servers were working fine before the transfer,
they are still working fine during, and after the transfer.

However, several customers have requested to use Gandi's NS before a
transfer process (including zone management). This is good idea, and
we
will implement this option in the future.

2. to enable a reseller account you have to have first at least one
domain at their place. 

What makes you think that? *You can create a Gandi handle for free*,
without obligation to purchase anything. This is also thrue for a
reseller account, which is a Gandi handle.

This has always been possible on our interface, please feel free to
try:
https://www.gandi.net/login/new

I manage domain names for several companies.
None of them want anything to do with having to manage an account or
anything, but at Gandi, they do. 

Our reseller system is precisely designed to *permit resellers to
manage
their customers' domain names for their customers*. So that the
registrant does not have to manage anything if he does not want to,
but
he still has the ownership of his domain names.

You can not have a different contact
or owner at Gandi unless that contact has a Gandi handle. A Gandi
handle is nothing else then an account. At Gandi, you have to have an
account for each and every client. You can not define a different
owner
of a domain from your reseller account, you have to create an
individual
account for each owner. Imagine how much time you'll need to log in
and
log out of different accounts to get anything changed!

Collecting the registrants and *contacts data is an obligation for all
registrars*. It is used mainly for the whois database, that is an
ICANN
and registries contractual requirement. At the registries level, each
person's data is associated to a handle. Thus we have to create
handles
dor each customer, for the whois requirements, even if these handles
are
not all used to manage domain names.

The fact that we create a Gandi handle with your customers' contact
data
should not be a problem, you/*they do not have to use them if you
manage
the domain names through your reseller account*.

3. their interface for contacts is unintelligible. You need a Gandi
handle for every different contact. A gandi handle is the same as a
gandi account, with its username and password. You have to squad
through several forms that don't really tell you what it does or
doesn't. I ended up having the wrong owner details on a domain by
following their forms, which according to their terms would mean the
account being deactivated!!

As per ICANN requirements, the registries requirements, and French
laws,
*we have to collect the contact data of each of our customers*.

If you want to register a domain name for someone else, you have to
tell
us the exact contact data of the registrant. 

This data is particularly useful to manage legal cases: the registrant
has rights on the domain name, as owner of the domain, *we have to
know
who he is so that we can protect the ownership of his domain name*.

4. when you submit a ticket, it takes them at least a day to reply. I
now have an issue open for 2 days and I'm still waiting!

According to my data, we have received 4 emails from you.
2 of them were answered in 2 hours.
One was answered after 1 day.
We have received the last one 1 day and 2 hours ago, and we will
answer
it in a fews minutes.


I hope that this answer helps to understand how domain names work, and
how our interface works.

I am at your disposal should you need any further information.

Best regards,

Dear roamreview,

I am sorry if you did not get rapid and satisfying answers from our
support team! We will speak about that, and make sure that our future
answers are very fast and comprehensive.

May you have any inconvenience in the future, feel free to send your
email to my attention, and/or to the Reseller service.

So every time you need
to change a contact detail of a contact, you need to login and
password
differently for every owner detail change, per owner that is.

This is thrue in the standard registration/management system.

But in the reseller system, you can do *everything* from your reseller
account (except validate an ownership change or delete a domain before
expiration), so you do not need to loggin with your customer's handle.

Why do your forms need to be unintelligible? 1
form,
all contact details of all contact types in 1 form.

This is exactly our reseller interface for domain names registration.
You purchase n domains, you have one form for all the handles, like:

- admin contact for all domains (by default, your reseller account)
- tech contact for all domains (by default, your reseller account)
- billing contact for all domains (by default, your reseller account)
- owner of domain1 : specify the handle, or search for an existing
handle, or create a new handle
- owner of domain2 : can be the same (copy-paste) or a different one
- owner of domain3 ...

Have you created a reseller handle to see this interface?

Besides, the contact
data that I sent you by email is still not put in, so don't blame me
when you discover on my domain name there are contact data errors. 

Well, we still need to have an up-to-date database about contacts (ICANN
rules...). May you have any difficulty to update or change a contact,
feel free to send me an email on the support, I will help you for each
issue.


Maybe you will have a better idea of the interface as soon as you will
see it. Feel free to create (for free)
<https://www.gandi.net/login/new> a reseller handle, and tell me what
you think about the reseller interface (registration interface for
example).

Best regards,

Françoise
GANDI SAS
http://www.gandi.net/

I rest my case:

- owner of domain1 : specify the handle, or search for an existing
handle, or create a new handle
- owner of domain2 : can be the same (copy-paste) or a different one
- owner of domain3 ...

When I need to change contact details of a domain owner, I want to do
that with the same login and password, in the same page where I update
my details. I don't want to log out of my account and log back in with
the owner account to change a phone number or other contact data. And
do that again, and again, and again for the different domain owners I
take care of.

When renewal comes along, these people want their invoice for their
domain directly attributed to them. In your system, they would have to
log in and out with their own, different login and password while at
other registrars this happens all from the same handle.

Again, why make things easy when they can be difficult for your
customers? I don't know of any other registrar that uses your "handle"
system, which is VERY user unfriendly for people that manage domains of
many owners.

You have an email, now 3 days !!!!!!!!!! This has all the correct
contact details, and you have still not put them in the right places in
the account. Still no reply to that email either.

You're trying to show good faith here in public, but behind the scenes
you do nothing!

On Jan, 12 2008 16:20 CET, Françoise Gandinette wrote:

Dear roamreview,

I am sorry if you did not get rapid and satisfying answers from our
support team! We will speak about that, and make sure that our future
answers are very fast and comprehensive.

May you have any inconvenience in the future, feel free to send your
email to my attention, and/or to the Reseller service.

So every time you need
to change a contact detail of a contact, you need to login and
password
differently for every owner detail change, per owner that is.

This is thrue in the standard registration/management system.

But in the reseller system, you can do *everything* from your reseller
account (except validate an ownership change or delete a domain before
expiration), so you do not need to loggin with your customer's handle.

Why do your forms need to be unintelligible? 1
form,
all contact details of all contact types in 1 form.

This is exactly our reseller interface for domain names registration.
You purchase n domains, you have one form for all the handles, like:

- admin contact for all domains (by default, your reseller account)
- tech contact for all domains (by default, your reseller account)
- billing contact for all domains (by default, your reseller account)
- owner of domain1 : specify the handle, or search for an existing
handle, or create a new handle
- owner of domain2 : can be the same (copy-paste) or a different one
- owner of domain3 ...

Have you created a reseller handle to see this interface?

Besides, the contact
data that I sent you by email is still not put in, so don't blame me
when you discover on my domain name there are contact data errors. 

Well, we still need to have an up-to-date database about contacts
(ICANN
rules...). May you have any difficulty to update or change a contact,
feel free to send me an email on the support, I will help you for each
issue.


Maybe you will have a better idea of the interface as soon as you will
see it. Feel free to create (for free)
<https://www.gandi.net/login/new> a reseller handle, and tell me what
you think about the reseller interface (registration interface for
example).

Best regards,

Into the 4th day and counting, let it be known!

Gandi received the correct contacts by email on Friday morning, still
not put in place.

Dear roamreview,

As explained above, with the reseller system *you do not need to log
with each registrant handle*. If you have created the domain name (and
registrant handle) while being logged to your reseller account, *you
can change anything from your reseller account*.

Moreover, in the reseller system, all the invoices are sent to the
reseller.
Have you tested the reseller system?

About the support request: according to my data all your support
requests were up-to-date on Saturday (2 days ago). We have a lot of
questions this monday morning, but we will make sure taht you have an
aswer rapidly.

Best regards,

Françoise
GANDI SAS
http://www.gandi.net/

On Jan, 14 2008 10:51 CET, Françoise Gandinette wrote:

About the support request: according to my data all your support
requests were up-to-date on Saturday (2 days ago). We have a lot of
questions this monday morning, but we will make sure taht you have an
aswer rapidly.

You must be joking!
Ref1090748
Do I have to do your administration now? My reply to you on Friday AM
!!!

As explained above, with the reseller system *you do not need to log
with each registrant handle*. If you have created the domain name (and
registrant handle) while being logged to your reseller account, *you
can change anything from your reseller account*.

So I can change from the reseller account, without logging out and back
in, the complete contact details of a domain managed by me but owned by
one of my clients?

Moreover, in the reseller system, all the invoices are sent to the
reseller.
Have you tested the reseller system?

Exactly what shouldn't happen! The invoice needs to be in the name of
the owner, not in the name of the "reseller".

Le 14 jan 2008 à 11:44 CET, roamreview a écrit :

I think the answer is yes for all contacts ... but owner, which requires
(per ICANN rules) a specific procedure and this makes a lot of sense, to
prevent indelicate reseller to take ownership of a client domain ...

Moreover, in the reseller system, all the invoices are sent to the
reseller.
Have you tested the reseller system?

Exactly what shouldn't happen! The invoice needs to be in the name of
the owner, not in the name of the "reseller".

Hmm hmm
I have been reading all these posts since #1, and I am
not related in any way to Gandi, I have a reseller account, but I am not
currently using Gandi as a host.

I do not agree at all with this last remark: Reseller accounts are for
resellers, which clearly means that the reseller receives the invoice
et makes a new invoice to his client. The client does not even know
(that's up to the reseller) about Gandi. That's the way all reseller
accounts work (and I have more than one with other companies).

Nevertheless, I think that what you want can be achieved with all
reseller accounts: just creat one handle for your client that you will
use as the "billing contact" for all domains he owns and that's it. 
As mentionned by support, when you create a new domain with a reseller
account, Gandi's interface proposes you to use the reseller's handle as
a contact for proprietary/admin/technical/billing contact, but allows
you to change that at creation time: a specific owner, and/or a
specific handle for each type of contact.

I must say that the Gandi's reseller interface is one of the best I have
ever seen, and Gandi entering the hosting market is a good news for me,
because of their very good service history as a registrar (I agree it's
a different problem, we'll see).

Pierre.

Pierre:
thank you for your constructive comments :)


Roamreview:

I have read Ref 1090748 on support, and I will answer it in a few
minutes, explaining how you can change the owner and contacts for the
domain name. However for that I you will have to use our interface,
because for security reasons we will not change such data without a
formal authentification (handle or password).

About the invoices issue, I can not explain better than Pierre :)
"Reseller accounts are for resellers, which clearly means that the
reseller receives the invoice et makes a new invoice to his client. ".

Please not that the contact on the invoice is the handle who was logged
during the purchase. As a reseller, you can specify a different billing
contact, so that someone else can access to the invoices. But the billed
contact will always be the reseller.

Best regards,

Françoise
GANDI SAS
http://www.gandi.net/

I do not agree at all with this last remark: Reseller accounts are for
resellers, which clearly means that the reseller receives the invoice
et makes a new invoice to his client. The client does not even know
(that's up to the reseller) about Gandi. That's the way all reseller
accounts work (and I have more than one with other companies).

It is exactly the way that accounts operate at the ICANN registrars I'm
with and it is exactly what my clients want, and the reason is exactly
that, domain ownership. An invoice and payment at an ICANN registrar
are much stronger proof of ownership then any contact details in some
form or a reseller without ICANN accreditation blocking off because
they are the icann payer/invoicee.

Nevertheless, I think that what you want can be achieved with all
reseller accounts: just creat one handle for your client that you will
use as the "billing contact" for all domains he owns and that's it. 
As mentionned by support, when you create a new domain with a reseller
account, Gandi's interface proposes you to use the reseller's handle
as
a contact for proprietary/admin/technical/billing contact, but allows
you to change that at creation time: a specific owner, and/or a
specific handle for each type of contact.

You keep on asking to create handles. Boy you must have fun managing god
knows how many logins and passes!!

I must say that the Gandi's reseller interface is one of the best I
have
ever seen, and Gandi entering the hosting market is a good news for
me,
because of their very good service history as a registrar (I agree
it's
a different problem, we'll see).

Pierre.

Then tell us Pierre, which are the reseller interfaces of ICANN
registrars that also require you to log in with different log and pass
for every domain owner when the domain owner contact details change???
I'll give you the heads-up on 2 that don't need different logins and
passes for every owner like Gandi does: Godaddy and Moniker.

To resume, Gandi has been to me a waste of time and a waste of money. If
only I could claim my money back or undo the transfer ... I paid a
premium for having less. I'm done with loosing my time with Gandi. If
you want lots of logins and passwords, and support that takes days to
answer, Gandi is your way. If you're serious about domain names, then
you may want to think twice before registering with these people.

Le 14 jan 2008 à 15:32 CET, roamreview a écrit :

 I do not agree at all with this last remark: Reseller accounts are

 for

resellers, which clearly means that the reseller receives the invoice
et makes a new invoice to his client. The client does not even know
(that's up to the reseller) about Gandi. That's the way all reseller
accounts work (and I have more than one with other companies).

It is exactly the way that accounts operate at the ICANN registrars
I'm
with and it is exactly what my clients want, and the reason is exactly
that, domain ownership. An invoice and payment at an ICANN registrar
are much stronger proof of ownership then any contact details in some
form or a reseller without ICANN accreditation blocking off because
they are the icann payer/invoicee.

I am pretty sure that this is not true: invoicing goes to the billing
contact which can be anybody ... so for sure, invoicing is not the
proof of ownership !!!! Only the person listed as "owner" is the owner,
not the admin, not the person receiving the invoice ...
And by the way, Gandi is an ICANN registrar, and not a reseller using
some other system ...

Nevertheless, I think that what you want can be achieved with all
reseller accounts: just creat one handle for your client that you
will
use as the "billing contact" for all domains he owns and that's it. 
As mentionned by support, when you create a new domain with a
reseller
account, Gandi's interface proposes you to use the reseller's handle
as
a contact for proprietary/admin/technical/billing contact, but allows
you to change that at creation time: a specific owner, and/or a
specific handle for each type of contact.

You keep on asking to create handles. Boy you must have fun managing
god
knows how many logins and passes!!

Sorry but I do not see the problem: 
1/ your way: you of course have to create a nic-handle for you as the
reseller and then for the owner for invoicing purposes (if you want him
to receive invoices)
2/ Gandi: exactly the same, you need at least one nic for each, so I
don't see the difference

I must say that the Gandi's reseller interface is one of the best I
have
ever seen, and Gandi entering the hosting market is a good news for
me,
because of their very good service history as a registrar (I agree
it's
a different problem, we'll see).

Pierre.

Then tell us Pierre, which are the reseller interfaces of ICANN
registrars that also require you to log in with different log and pass
for every domain owner when the domain owner contact details change???
I'll give you the heads-up on 2 that don't need different logins and
passes for every owner like Gandi does: Godaddy and Moniker.

I only log-in as my reseller handle, my client handle (as owner in any
case) don't even have a password (because, again per ICANN rules, the
owner cannot be changed online) ... Even if I create a handle for
billing purposes, I never login with it, I don't even see why I would
need that.. ANd my reseller account allows me to change some of the
owner's details, but not the owner himself.
And again, as a reseller I want to receive all the invoices (which in my
understanding is the way I want a reseller account to work), so I am the
admin/tech/billing contact, same as my reseller account, so I have only
one nic-handle to manage and this is all the purpose of reseller
account.

I am really sorry that you fail to see the way it works with Gandi (and
with a lot of others, I used at least 6 major registrars, 2 french and
4 in the US and all were more or less the same), might be that I am not
explaining myself clearly, but again, I can assure you that I manage
hundreds of domain with 2 french registrars, Gandi and another, and I
only have one nic-handle for each (of course, also because I am
receiving invoices). And I think that youy should re-read ICANN's
rules, paying for a domain is not a proof of ownership (example: at
Gandi, anybody can renew a domain even without a nic-handle, that does
not make him the owner, same with e-commerce; the paying credit-card is
not the where the goods are shipped or even to who the invoice is made,
I pay some goods for my company with my personal credit card, I have a
receipt in my name but an invoice in my company name).

Pierre